Reply3 misunderstood

It's not that I wouldn't MIND having kids - I WANT to have kids - I just didn't want to have them right away. I thought that 1-2 years was a good time period. If you don't feel this way then TELL ME and we can talk about it further. Please don't assume that I feel a certain way - ASK me about it. My point is this: we have to decide when we want to have kids. Just waiting and seeing what happens is NOT a wise move - kids come whether you are ready for them or not. Heavenly Father has a lot to do with it, but so does nature. I don't agree with the theory that you just have sex and leave it up to Heavenly Father to decide if you'll have kids or not. We have the power to decide some of these issues - so we should. >This is why we must plan for them. I am confident that we will do fine. As to whether or not I would want to go two years without sex: THAT one hurt. I figured sex was something that BOTH partners wanted - if I'm the only one wanting it then there's no sense in doing it. We aren't animals - we don't just do it to have kids. It brings two people closer together. I want to have sex, I assumed you did as well. If not, then let me know ahead of time so that I don't plan on it when we get married. I'm sorry, but I am feeling REALLY hurt by what you said. >You can plan on having sex. This comment was meant to lighten the heavy atmosphere, but it only did the opposite. Just as our love isn't one-sided, neither is the desire for sex. Sex is one way we haven't been close together and I desire to share this with you. I want to keep you close to me physically, emotionally, and spiritually and sex is a great and fun way to do this. (Smile dear, I love you.) You know when you ovulate, so you are largely in control of the decision to have children. I have to be able to trust you in this. We need to agree when we are going to have children so that we will both know - so that there is no confusion. Do you want kids right away? Do you not want to wait? How important is your schooling? Can you go to school when you have children? Could we afford this? >Robert, you are the one that receives revelation for our family. What better time to start than with the decision to start a family. I will trust you. If you feel that it is best to wait, then I won't deceive you and I will abide by what you say. You ask "Do you not want to wait?" Robert, I will wait, and if it gives you peace of mind, then I will gladly wait, but I don't want to continue to wait. I don't want to wait for you to OK kids as Jenn is waiting for Erik to ask her to marry him. If I know that you want children, (just as I knew that you would ask me to marry you) then I will not worry because I know that eventually we will have children. I'm sorry, you led me to believe that your schooling was of the utmost importance - second only to my career. However, in the past you have made comments that made me wonder if this was the case. It seems to me sometimes that your schooling is more important to you than my career. (Like coming to Los Alamos, for instance) Now I'm not sure how important your schooling is to you. I'm just very confused because you're not telling me what you want. I've told you what I want - and now I feel as if you've thrown it back in my face. >Priorities: #1 - your career. Your career is what will be supporting me, our children, my education, and your continued education. #2 - our children. If I had to choose between children and an education, then I would want to have children. Maybe thsi is my heart talking instead of my head, but my heart is following the Spirit. #3 - schooling (yours and mine). Since we can have both if we wait to have children, we are taking care of this second and our family third. You're saying that I wouldn't MIND having kids when in fact I WANT them. That's part of the reason I asked you to marry me - the other reason is that I love you and don't want to be apart from you. I want us to share our lives with each other, I want us to be close. If we could wait 1-2 years, you could finish your degree and I could (hopefully) pay off my student loans.

Reply2

to rush into having children. I think 1-2 years is a reasonable period of time, but after we are married and we see how things are going we may just move up this time frame. However, I need to know how you prioritize your schooling. If we have children it will be very difficult for you to continue with your schooling - both in regards to time and in regards to finances. >My schooling will be completed. Whether we have a child in 1 year from now or 5 years from now, I will have it done. After we are married I have a good two years to finish my schooling. In the eternal scheme of things, that isn't too long. By changing my major and by going summer quarters (or semesters) I will not be stressed with the heavy loads that I am facing now. Additionally, I think I will enjoy school much more after my generals are completed. I won't have to deal with any English courses or any of the humanities. >One to two years is a reasonable time period. I don't think we should close the issue, and you're not, thank you. I don't want to end up where Katrina and Brian are. Katrina is so baby hungry. They are going to jump right into having children. He isn't done with school and neither of them have a steady income. I think the only thing that will save them is his family has a lot of money. It may be necessary to wait more than two years, but the opportunity may arise to have them earlier too. As long as we don't close the issue, then we can talk about it if circumstances change. I'm concerned now because I thought we had agreed to wait - but now you are saying that I agreed to wait and you are simply going to let me decide the issue. I don't like that, it makes it sound like my decision. Now I am feeling hurt. >Yes, I am going to let you decide the issue. I didn't think that this would make you feel hurt. You wanted to wait and I want to make you happy. If waiting eases stress for you, then I will wait with you. Please tell me why this hurt you. I STILL do not know what your thoughts are - I STILL do not know what you want. Are you willing to sacrifice your degree to have children? Do you think it's wrong to put off having kids for 1-2 years so that you can finish your schooling and we can be reasonably stable in our marriage and in our finances? >If I could not have both - children AND a degree - I would choose to have children. However, if waiting allows me to have my cake and eat it too, then I will wait. Stability in our marriage? I know how you feel on this. I don't think we should put kids off to add stability in our marriage. The last guy I dated felt the same way. Because he did, I seriously contemplated it. My personal opinion is that it is from the devil. They are words of the world. Anything that needs stabilizing can and should be done while we are courting. When we get married we should be able to adjust to each other and our new life together relatively well because we have chosen correctly. These words aren't meant to be harsh or hurt you, but you asked how *I* felt. Now you have it. I love you and I know that we will be happy and that we will both love our children when we have them. Do you want to start having kids right away? I STILL am waiting to hear what it is that you want. You've told me what I want: that I wouldn't MIND having children (instead of my WANTING them), that I want to wait 2-3 years, that I have made the decision and you are abiding by it. This has really hurt my feelings, Wanda, if you didn't agree with what I was saying then why didn't you just say so? >You told me that you wouldn't mind having children after we are married. You need to want them as much as I do and sometimes (only sometimes) it sounds as if you don't. Robert, you HAVE made the decision and I will abide by it. I want you to be happy and I don't want you to feel stressed. You will be the priesthood leader in our home and the decisions will ultimately be made by you. I trust your judgement and I know that you listen to the spirit. I will abide by what you say. This shouldn't hurt you. I love you and this is why I will follow you. I don't know - I feel like my words have been twisted or at least

Reply1

Robert, With AOL I can only send you the first part of the reply. I love you. Wanda Children: let's talk more about this. I would like to have children soon, but I really think it would be easier if you finished your schooling first. How do YOU feel about this? > We definately need to TALK about this. We will be able to do so in a few short (or long) days. I am anxious to be with you again and we will soon be able to talk about it. How do *I* feel? You ask me this later on. Let me respond then. I suppose we can ask others and see what they are doing to keep from having kids until they are ready. It's beginning to sound like you want to have kids soon after we are married - so now I'm wondering how in the world we would be able to put you through school and have a family without creating some serious hardships for ourselves. >Where has the impression come from that I want kids right after we are married? What is your definition of soon? Sure I want them "soon" but soon is also a year or two. Is this not what you have said? Robert, I want children. A couple of years is not too long to wait. What I was worried about was in some instances it sounded as if you didn't care if we had children or not and wouldn't mind waiting many years. Isn't this a switch? I thought you wanted to wait 10 or 15 years and you thought I wanted to deliver when we left the ceremony. (This is exaggerated for a little levity.) We have a certain amount of knowledge granted to us - and we should utilize it. If you already know when you ovulate then we can just practice abstinence for that 24-48 hour period. That may not work in every case, but it's worth a try. I will NOT be upset when you are pregnant - regardless of when that occurs. I will be very happy about it, but I would be rather stressed about how to pay for it if we have no insurance. If we have adequate insurance then we'll be in far better shape, but if we don't then there will be some stresses that we'll have to deal with. >I volunteered this knowledge because I thought it might be of some use. You are right, it might not work in every case, but it is something WE CAN do. >I asked you if you would be angered if I were pregnant earlier than expected. To you this might seem like an off the wall question and wonder why I even bother asking it. I have known many couples who decide to wait to have children. In many cases the wife gets pregnant before they had planned. Oftentimes the husband gets mad at the wife. "How could you let this happen?" "Why did you have to get pregnant?" "You know we had decided to wait to have children." These are many of the responses. I know these are not responses YOU would give, but I wouldn't want you to feel this way either. I don't want to feel condemned for getting pregnant after we have decided to wait. I love you and I want our starting a family to be a happy time. It makes me feel loads better knowing taht you want and will be happy having children even if we are not fully prepared for them. >Getting pregnant is a scarry idea for me. It is for most women. Delivering a baby is more risky than open-heart surgery. It is very life threatening. Plus there are all the changes I will be going through. I am going to be fat. I have never done that before. There is also a good chance I will have morning sickness 24 hours a day. This is not a comforting thought. Being nauseated is the worst thing anyone can do to me. It will also be a time of trial. I don't want to get cranky and irritable. I will try to control this. I don't want to take it out on you. When my mother gets pregnant my dad calls her the "pregnant witch of the west." None of us can do anything right, especially him. My dad is really patient and understanding. He is very light-hearted and takes it with a lot of humor. I hope that I won't be this way. Even though I may feel cranky, it isn't an excuse, it's only a reason. What I am trying to say is: if I am going to be fat and sick, then the last thing I need is to feel blamed for being that way. I don't want you to get angry with me for getting pregnant. Can you see the reason I had asked that question? I am happy that you will want the child, even if it is unexpected. Wanda, I want to have a family just as you do, but I don't want

Reply4 - The last one

Then we'd be in a much better position to have children. THAT is what I am saying. I'm going home now - I'm a bit upset and tired. Sorry, it's not your fault - I should have been more clear in what I was saying. I hope that I didn't hurt your feelings in this, but I DO want you to know that MY feelings were hurt. I haven't really had a chance to re-read this letter, so it may be a little mis-worded. I'm just upset and rambling right now. >I am sorry that what I said upset you. I never mean to hurt you and I will do anything to clear up the confusion you might be feeling. Have I adequately told you how I feel? Please tell me what I can do. >Sum: I can and will wait a couple of years to have children if this means I can have an education and children. I just don't want to wait forever to have them (as Jenn will be waiting for Erik to ask her to marry him) and I don't want to wait if the only reason is to strengthen our marriage. The ultimate decision will be yours and I will do what you feel is best. I love you. Please reply to this when you get the letter. I want to know how you are feeling this morning. Love forever, WMH

My reply

Robert, I had to attach the file from Word Perfect. I hope it comes through okay. I love you. Your fiancee, Wanda

Hurt

Robert, I don't know when I will be arriving in Salt Lake. You will already be in Ogden. My mother says we will leave around 6:00 and it is a 10-12 hour drive, but I am not sure we will leave by then. (I shouldn't have to explain this. You have met my mother.) Roommate: I have a feeling I will spend more time in your room when she is cranky AND when she is in a good mood. Children: You are right, we need to TALK more about this one. Whenever I write a letter I a always worried taht something I have said may be taken the right way. Even when I re-read letter over and over, there is always the chance that I might not have read something with this tone or feeling that way. It appears as if I should've waited to talk to you about this. I never want to you and now I have. I wish I would have read this earlier, that way you would have at least had a response when you turned on the computer this morning. If I would have read it last night, I would have called you. I have given up trying to get on the computer after my dad gets home because he is usually on it. I am going to open your letter, respond to each part and then mail it back to you. I want you to be able to read each part and my response to it. Perhaps this is my feeble attempt to make it a conversation. Please bear with me and know that whatever I say is not intended to hurt you. I am so sorry that it does. I love you.

Children and other matters

Robert, Where are you writing from? The lines were running off of the page. No matter, I just downloaded it and pulled it into Word Perfect with a soft return and walluh! It works. Dear, YOU will arrive in Ogden at about 4 or 5 pm. I won't have access to my room until Sunday. Up until then I will be in Salt Lake. I will move in Sunday and my mother (and Joe if he comes) will stay in Salt Lake. Sally: I don't think she will be returning. I don't know who my roommate will be but hopefully she won't be as moody as my roommate last year (before Katrina). I am feeling MUCH better now. I think I just needed some sleep. No one else has called in sick. I don't think the sneezing meant anything, I was just joking with you. Postponing children until I finished my degree was not a decision we made, it was a stipulation you had that I am complying to. I knew as soon as we started discussing the bishop's list that you didn't want children right away because I would be finishing school. I will do anything to make you happy and if that means not pressuring you with kids, then I won't. Please send me the message where we talk about this, I would like to hear what I had to say. Yes, I can tell when I ovulate (release an egg). I can feel it, it's somewhat painful. Quite a few women can't tell, either they can't feel it, or they don't know what they are feeling. In a healthy human female this occurs two weeks into the cycle, since I am on Birth Control it occurs at the end of the cycle so it doesn't have a chance to be fertilized (this is what the green pills do, the orange ones prevent me from ovulating). I'll bet that you never thought you would hear so much about female anatomoy when you chose to get married. I won't be on birth control starting Monday. When mom called, the doctor said that I should discontinue it, but that I should finish the cycle. They are going to try to get me in to see her Friday. You ask me what I want: There is no need to rush into it, but I don't want to actively prevent having children either. This is why I was wondering what you had in mind. You gave the right/best answer when you said: "We'll just pray and receive revelation regarding our family." Heavenly Father wants the best for us. If we are trying to do the right thing Heavenly Father will help us. He's going to know how much time we need together before having children. What we should consider is how willing we are to do what Heavenly Father wishes. What if it is different then what we, as earthly beings, have planned? This includes having a child 9 months from the time we are married or if he makes us wait 10 years to have children. I just don't want our having children to be a closed issue. How upset will you be if I am pregnant three quarters before I finish school? You mentioned trying to have a family 1 quarter before I am done, but I don't think you want to put off sex for that long. Abstinence is the only sure way of not having children. If Heavenly Father wants us to have them, we will. Many women have had their tubes tied and still get pregnant. On the other side of the coin, if he feels that we truly need the time together before having children, he won't give us a baby. My mother and father actively tried for two years to have me. I have often wondered if there was a reason for me being late. You want to know what brought this up and asked why I had changed my mind. I am completing school faster because I don't want to delay having children for a long period of time, that's where it sprung from. I have never changed my mind because I have never settled it. Robert, I know what you want and I want to make you happy, but I don't want you to close your mind about it. You have eased my mind by telling me that this is negotiable. I don't think we are going to have a problem as long as it remains open. Heavenly Father is full of surprises and I think we should be prepared for unexpected events. Please don't compare yourself to your brother. You are already a step ahead of him, you will have a college education and a great possibility of earning more than $5.00 an hour. You said that it wouldn't hurt to get minimally established. How would you describe minimally established? Where your brother is? Where you are? Lower than you brother is? Higher than you are? Somewhere in between? If you don't feel established now, are we going to be established enough to have them? Please examine yourself and your feelings so you know that you WANT to have children instead of NOT MINDING having children. You often remind me that people in other countries are poor and happy. Often they have children. Thank you for taking the time to let me know how you feel and why you feel the way you do, hopefully I have done the same for you, if I haven't, tell me. I love you. I, like you, want us to plan to have our children so we can be better parents. I love you. I am not asking that we have them right away. I realize that my last letter may have come across a little confusing, perhaps as if I wanted children NOW, sounding as if I am changing what has been said. I am often concerned that my written (or spoken) word may come across different then has been intended. Thank you for asking me how I felt and clarifying the situation. I love you. I talked with my mother about having a reception in San Diego. She commented that it might be better to just do away with the idea totally. She brought up several points that we might want to consider. We can discuss this when we get back up to Weber. My sisters have all gotten home and seem to be fine. They're not sick at all, neither is Joey. So far he has had a good birthday. It's kind of an important birthday. He seems more excited about turning 18 than I did. I didn't much care how young I was. I love you and I am anxious to be with you in 5 days and even more anxious to be with you in 6 months. I am happy that I accepted this very important invitation. I love you. To quote Much Ado... "I love you with so much of my heart that there is none left to protest." I think you told me this once in a message and I have looked for it, but I cannot find it. There are just too many letters. I love you. I can't say it enough. I love you, I love you, I love you!!! By the way, I probably won't walk through the line at my graduation pregnant, I might waddle through it though. I love you. Your friend, Wanda PS. I almost sent your last letter to Sean, his name is under yours in the adddress book for AOL. BTW, have you heard from Rob?